创建特色党支部材料:想要做领导？先培养战战兢兢、如履薄冰的心态吧。

想要做领导？先培养战战兢兢/如履薄冰的心态吧。

By ADAM BRYANT

作者：亚当?布莱恩特

This interview with Kathleen L. Flanagan, president and chief executive of Abt Associates, was conducted and condensed by Adam Bryant. Abt is a consulting firm specializing in health, social and environmental policy, and international development.

凯瑟琳?弗拉纳根（Kathleen L. Flanagan）为Abt Associates的首席执行官和董事长，采访由亚当?布莱恩特进行。Abt是美国一家专业从事健康，社会、环境政策和国际发展的咨询公司。

Q. Do you remember the first time you were somebody’s boss?

问：记得第一次当别人上司时的情景吗？

A. The first time I was really a big boss was in 1989. I was 29, and I had been at Abt for about seven years. The new executive vice president called me and said: “Can you fly up to Boston tomorrow? I need you to take over this business unit. Take the challenge.”

答：第一次真正地做上司时是1989年。那时我29岁，在Abt公司也已经干了七年左右的时间。新上任的执行副总裁给我打电话说，“明天能飞到波士顿来吗？我想让你接管这边的一个部门。来试试吧。”

It wasn’t until after I agreed that he looked up my age in the personnel files and said, “Whoa.” But the advice he gave me for my new job was: “You’ll always want to have butterflies in your stomach. Plan for success. Create your goals and your strategy, and go with your gut. Have confidence in yourself. You’re good at what you do.”

我同意之后，他才在我的人事资料里查出了我的年龄，然后发出了“呀”的一声。但是他对我的新工作提了些建议：“你得时刻兢兢业业，如履薄冰。需要为成功谋划。制定目标和相应的策略后就放手去干。得对自己有信心。只要你干的事情就一定能办成。”

So I went in front of 35 people who were now my direct reports to talk to them about my vision, and most of them were older than me. I remember wondering whether they were going to take orders from this young whippersnapper. And a couple of them had pretty much determined that there was no way I was going to be able to pull this job off, and they said that to me.

所以来到这个部门的35个人面前，我跟他们谈了自己的愿景，他们大多数人都年长于我，当时都直接向我汇报工作。我还记得当时对他们是否会听这样一个狂妄的年轻人的命令感到怀疑。他们之中有两三个人十分坚定地表示，我是不可能搞定这个工作的，而且他们就直接这样对我说了。

So, the first year, I constantly had butterflies in my stomach, but I realized that you have to go with your gut. You’ve got to respect people. You’ve got to listen. You have to be willing to get input from everybody.

所以，第一年，我无时无刻不保持警醒的状态，但我也意识到做事必须要有胆量。你得尊重他们。你得听听他们的想法。你必须愿意听取每个人的建议。

At the end of the first year, one person actually said: “O.K. You’ve proved me wrong.” I felt pretty good about that, but I realized quickly that there’s no blueprint for this. There’s no recipe for it. You have to make a plan and be goal-oriented. Be flexible along the way, but listen to people. I give them the opportunity to give me feedback, tell me what worries them, what they are thinking about, what part of the strategy they think is risky.

第一年年终，有个人竟然跟我说：“你真行。你已经证实我是错误的了。”对此我非常高兴，但很快我意识到我没有制定相应的计划，也没有应对之法。你必须为将做的事情做好计划，那样才能一步步迈向目标。同时，也需要灵活，能听从他人的想法。他们每个人都可以给我反馈，这样我就知道他们担心的东西、他们的想法、他们对战略的风险的看法。

It’s not about being smarter than anybody else. It’s about being able to connect the dots and being the glue for a business. I’m constantly saying to my colleagues: “Let’s put the puzzle together. Let’s use people with varied experiences who are wired differently to get the job done.” I believe in asking people at every level of the organization for their input. It’s amazing, this new generation, what makes them tick and how they think about things, and I always learn something very interesting when I ask for their input.

并不需要比其他任何人都聪明。只需要将所有的问题都串起来，然后专注于做好某件事。我常跟我的同事说：“我们把难题都汇拢汇拢吧。我们应该任用那些具有多种经验的人，他们都有各自的门道将工作做好。”我深信询问公司内部各层次员工想法的重要性。很奇怪，现在年轻的一代为什么这样做呢，他们对事情有哪些想法呢。跟他们谈反馈的时候，我总能了解一些非常有趣的事情。

Q. Can you elaborate on that point?

问：这一点能说得详细一些吗？

A. I think the younger generation obviously wants to move a lot more quickly in positions than maybe the more senior folks like me. They’re constantly curious about what they can do next. They’re almost impatient about sitting in a job for any length of time, and they always wonder about the next opportunity.

答：我想年轻人显然希望在工作岗位上可以迅速地上调，这比我这样的老年人的心气要高很多。他们对自己接下来要做的事情相当好奇。只要坐下来做会事情，他们几乎就会觉得不耐烦，他们心里总在盘算下一个机会是什么。

When I became the C.E.O. a couple years ago, they said, “You’ve got to have a blog, Kathleen.” And so I had 5 or 10 fairly junior employees giving me advice on how to blog, and now I use Twitter. And that younger group is likely to go on my blog and write back to me to ask: “What about this? What about that?”

几年前我做了CEO之后，这些年轻人对我说，“凯瑟琳，你要开一个博客。”所以我就去找了5到10个相当年轻的员工，让他们在如何写博客方面给点建议，现在我已经用上推特了。这些年轻人很可能上我的博客，写些东西问我问题：“这个怎么样？那个又怎么样？”

Q. And what are your thoughts about people being impatient in their careers?

问：对那些对自己的职业不耐烦的人您有哪些看法。

A. There’s obviously tension there. You want somebody to commit for 6 or 12 months to something, but my objective is to build a culture that allows people to move when it’s right, or at least to have those discussions. So the coaching has to be there. The managerial talent has to be there so that they can have that discussion with somebody and say, “Here are the pros and cons of this,” and then allow them to move quickly, as opposed to just saying, “You should stay in that job for three to five years.”

答：显然他们过于紧张了。有些人希望某个人花半年到一年的时间做同一件事，但我的目标是构建一种只要一切合适，人人都能自由移动的文化，或者至少能够谈论这些话题。所以必须有人辅导他们。必须要有管理人才在现场，这样年轻人就可以跟他这样谈：“你看看这个的优缺点，”然后允许他们可以立刻调到其它部门，而不只是说“你必须干这个工作三到五年。”

This generation isn’t going to do that. They’ll go somewhere else. So keeping talent at our company is a real priority right now. It’s very competitive so we’ve got to think about ways to keep that next generation growing, learning, excited.

这些年轻人是做不到的。他们会离开去别家公司的。所以眼下我们公司真正的重中之重是留住人才。对人才的竞争是非常激烈的，所以我们得想办法让这些年轻一代慢慢成长、学习，同时又能让他们对事情充满激情。

Q. When you first got that big management job, were you told why you were getting the job?

问：第一次拥有这么大的管理权限时，有人告诉过你你为何坐上这个位置吗？

A. I think it was my ability to work in teams, my ability to collaborate. I was actually in a different business unit altogether, so I demonstrated an understanding of how to connect business units, leverage all the capabilities of the company, not be turf-conscious, and listen to people.

答：我觉得是我参与团队协作的能力、与人共事的能力帮了我的忙。其实，当时我在另外一个不相干的部门，所以可能是如何联系相关部门、如何调动全公司的能力而不只关注本部门，善于倾听别人的意见等几个方面在平时就显示出来了。

Q. As your company has grown, have you noticed a change in culture?

问：随着公司发展壮大，你有注意到公司文化的变化吗？

A. We’ve grown from $180 million in annual revenue a few years ago to $425 million today. As the company grew, more business units were created, and so we had more silos in the organization. My objective two years ago in coming into this job was to take down the silos. So I reorganized the company. It used to be organized around lines of business — international, U.S.-based, data collection — and there used to be senior vice presidents who led each of those big businesses. I took those senior V.P. positions away and hired one executive vice president for global business who shared my vision for what I call One Global Abt.

答：数年前我们的年收入是1.8亿美元，如今是4.25亿。随着公司的发展，许多部门产生了，所以公司内部存在隔阂。两年前我担任这个职务时的目标就是消除部门间的不合。所以我重组了公司。以前公司是按照不同的业务组织的，比如说，国际业务、美国业务和数据收集，每个部门都会有高级副总裁负责。我拿掉了这些高级副总裁的位置，雇佣了一名负责全球业务的副总裁，他与我在“全球一站式Abt”上的理念一样。 

At the heart of that is taking down the walls so people can collaborate more freely, so that we can leverage all of Abt. We now ask people to pick their heads up out of their project work or their division focus and look across the whole company. So I now ask my managers to wear two hats. Everybody’s got their job in the big picture of the company, but they all have to wear an Abt hat. It’s really easy, given the time pressures and the pace of our work, to put blinders on and be very project-focused. It’s harder to take a step back and ask, “How does this apply to the whole company?”

最重要的就是推倒部门间存在的墙，这样人们就能更自由地协作，就能调动Abt 所有的员工。我们现在要求员工能跳出他们所在项目或者所在部门的思维，从整个公司的角度思考问题。所以现在我要求经理兼顾两个方面。从全公司的角度来讲，每个人都有自己的工作，但是都需要考虑Abt 公司的问题。由于时间压力和工作的进度，只关注自己的手中的事情、只看重手里的项目是很容易做到的。但是退后一步问问自己“这件事对整个公司有何影响”则比较困难。

Q. Any surprises when you became C.E.O.?

问：成为CEO之后有哪些惊喜吗？

A. I had some butterflies. All along in my career I’ve been a change agent, and I think the big surprise is how difficult driving change is, and how important it is when you’re making change to have involvement from all levels of the organization; to be selective about what you’re going to change first out of the gate; to not overwhelm the organization, but to set your goal and keep driving toward it. There’s going to be resistance, and by definition not everybody is comfortable with change, but keep your eye on the goal, and be patient enough to be flexible.

答：我一直是战战兢兢的。在整个职业生涯中，我一直都是试图作出改变，我觉得最大的惊喜就是作出改变是何等地困难，做出的变革涉及到公司各层面是多么地重要。要在全局角度选择你需要首先做出哪些改变，改变的目的不是推翻它，而是制定目标并为之而努力。当然会有抵制，从本质上讲并不是所有人都愿意改变的，但是只要坚持目标，有充分的耐心和灵活性改变一定会成功。

I felt very strongly that breaking down our silos and making an organizational shift that leveraged the whole company was a priority. But it wasn’t going to happen overnight.

我强烈地感觉到消除部门间存在的隔阂和做出影响整个公司的改变是应该首先被考虑的。但这一切都不可能在瞬间完成。

Q. Can you talk about important mentors in your life?

问：你能谈一下人生中的一些重要的导师吗？

A. My predecessor as C.E.O., who was the executive vice president who put me in that job in 1989, was a huge mentor to me, and he was the one who said: “Plan for success. Make your plan, set your goals, but plan for success. Be flexible along the way, but have a game plan and make sure you’re planning for success. Don’t plan to fail.”

答：我的前任CEO。1989年把我推上那个位置时他是执行副总裁，他是我的重要的导师，就是他说过，“为成功谋划。制定计划、设立目标，但更重要的是朝着计划努力。要灵活机动，要有策略，务必使你的计划成功。不要计划着失败。”

And always strive to have butterflies in your stomach, he said, because then you’ll be learning. You’ll be pushing yourself. Listen and get input from a lot of people. Respect everybody for their contributions. He helped develop me as a leader and gave me the right level of support, but also put me out there to stretch, to grow, to make my own decisions. He never tried to make decisions for me, and I think that’s really important.

他说，一直要保持战战兢兢的心态，因为你一直都在学习。你得要求自己上进。聆听并能从很多人那里得到有用的信息。尊重每一个人，因为大家都作出了贡献。是他帮助我成为了一位领导，给了我恰到好处的支持，但也是他把我扔出去磨练、成长和自己做决定。他从来没帮我做过什么决定，我觉得这一点是比较重要的。

He surrounded himself with a team that he had confidence in, and he allowed the team to do its job; I think that’s essential. I’ve built my team over the last couple of years. I’m very lucky because we’ve got a terrific team, and they are much smarter than me on many things. They’re experts in what they do. And he taught me humility. I don’t have to know it all. You’ve got to ask for perspectives. Go with your gut at the end of the day if you have to make a decision, but get advice from a wide range of people and value their input.

他身边有个他信得过的团队，而且允许他们正常地履行职责。我觉得这是至关重要的。在过去的两三年间，我一直在打造自己的团队。我很幸运，因为我有个优秀的团队，在很多事情上，这些团队成员都比聪明。在他们各自的领域，他们都是专家。从他们的上，我学到了谦卑。我不需要什么都会。你可以听听他们的想法。如果最后不得不做决定，那就拿出点魄力来吧。但是，还需要多方面听取意见，重视他们的想法。

Q. What messages are you reinforcing for your employees?

问：你都在向你的职员强调哪些观点呢？

A. Look for ways to develop and grow. Get outside perspectives. That’s a big thing that I’ve been pushing the last couple of years. I have asked everybody to look outside of the company, to go talk to their counterparts at other organizations. Just get out there. Learn different perspectives. Go talk. It’s amazing how welcoming other C.E.O.s are to me and how willing they are to share, even if I’m viewed as a competitor.

答：要不断寻找发展的思路。要跳出固有的思维。这就是过去两三年我一直重点努力的方向。我要求公司里的所有人都跳出公司的范围看问题，与其它公司的同行聊聊天。只是出去了解一下情况，学会从不同的角度看问题。去聊聊天。即使我们是竞争对手，其它公司的CEO对我都友好，也乐于分享他们的观点。

Q. Let’s talk about hiring. What qualities are you looking for?

问：我们谈谈有关招聘的事吧。你寻找的是哪种人才。

A. The top quality I’m looking for is somebody who’s got enough leadership acumen to be able to work collaboratively with others in decision-making, who understands the value of leveraging the assets across the company. They need to be able to live in a gray world. There’s almost nothing black and white about what we do at Abt, and I’m looking for people who are comfortable with that. I really look at people who’ve been very successful leading change, leading teams — people who are willing to share decisions, and don’t need things to be their way. So I often ask them about that experience.

答：我正在寻找的是顶级人才，他有足够的领导能力，做决定时能够与他人共同研究，还能理解并利用公司各种资产的价值。他们必须能生活在灰色世界中。在Abt 公司几乎不存在非黑即白的东西，我们需要的就是能适应这种状态的人才。我真的非常看重那些成功领导过团队、主持过变革的人：他们愿意分享自己的决定、不希望事情完全按照自己的方式发展。所以我经常问他们工作的经验。

I also ask them what they like to learn. We are a learning culture. If they think they know it all and they’re not interested in learning, that’s a flag for me.

我还会问他们喜欢学习什么东西。我们公司有学习的氛围的。如果他们认为他们无所不知、对学习没什么兴趣，那我对他就没什么兴趣了。

Q. If hiring were like speed dating and you could ask only a couple of questions, what would they be?

问：如果将招聘比作极速约会，你能问的只能是两三个问题，那你怎么办?

A. I’d probably ask about change. Have you had to lead a change process, and what was it like? And I’d probably ask you about a situation in which you’ve got some really big decisions to make and are accountable for. Who do you ask for advice? How do you process that before you come up with your decisions? It’s really important in our business that we make decisions, but how do you get there?

答：我最可能问有关变化的事情。问他有没有主持过一次变革，情况是怎样的。我还可能会问你有没有遇到这样的情形：你自己要做一些重大的决定而且还要为此而复杂。你会问哪些人的意见？在你做决定之前你是怎么操作的？在我们做生意过程中做决定是很重要的事，但是决定是如何达到的呢？