弗里德曼论贪婪

Donahue: When you see around the globe the mal-distribution of wealth, the desperate plight of millions of people in underdeveloped countries, when you see so few haves and so many have-nots, when you see the greed and the concentration of power, did you ever have a moment of doubt about capitalism and whether greed’s a good idea to run on?

Donahue:你看看这个世界,财富分配得如此不合理,千百万人在欠发达的国家过着窘迫的生活.只有很少人富有，多数人一无所有.如今贪婪盛行，权势集中.你难道一点都没有怀疑过资本主义？难道贪婪才是社会的动力？

Friedman: Well, first of all, tell me is there some society you know that doesn’t run on greed? You think Russia doesn’t run on greed? You think China doesn’t run on greed? What is greed? Of course none of us are greedy; its only the other fellow who’s greedy.The world runs on individuals pursuing their separate interests. The great achievements of civilization have not come from government bureaus. Einstein didn’t construct his theory under order from a bureaucrat. Henry Ford didn’t revolutionize the automobile industry that way. In the only cases in which the masses have escaped from the kind of grinding poverty you’re talking about, the only cases in recorded history are where they have had capitalism and largely free trade. If you want to know where the masses are worst off, it’s exactly in the kinds of societies that depart from that. So that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear: that there is no alternative way so far discovered of improving the lot of the ordinary people that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by a free enterprise system.

Friedman: 首先，请你能告诉我哪个社会没有“贪婪”？你认为苏俄社会没有贪婪？中国社会没有贪婪？什么叫贪婪？当然，我们都不贪婪，只有别人贪婪。世界发展是因为，人追求各自的利益，文明社会的伟大成就不是来自政府机构.爱因斯坦研究出他的理论,不是官员指导的结果。亨利福特开创汽车工业的革命,也不是拜官员所赐.有史以来，凡是民众摆脱了你所谓的“赤贫”的地方。都是在资本主义制度之下,大部分实行自由贸易的地方。如果你想要知道，哪里的民众水深火热.绝对是那些丧失了这种资本主义制度的地方。历史绝对清楚地表明,至今为止，还没有发现任何一条别的道路.可以做到让如此多平民百姓生活得到改善。只有这个自由市场制度，才能释放这种生产力.

Donahue: But it seems to reward not virtue as much as ability to manipulate the system.

Donahue:但是，好像这不能起到“善有善报”的作用，而是看谁有本事操纵这个制度

Friedman: And what does reward virtue? You think the communist commissar rewards virtue? You think a Hitler rewards virtue? You think – excuse me, if you will pardon me – do you think American presidents reward virtue? Do they choose their appointees on the basis of the virtue of the people appointed or on the basis of their political clout? Is it really true that political self interest is nobler somehow than economic self interest? You know I think you are taking a lot of things for granted. Just tell me where in the world you find these angels who are going to organize society for us? Well, I don’t even trust you to do that

Friedman:什么叫“善有善报”？你认为共产党的政委追求“善有善报”。你认为希特勒崇尚“善有善报”你认为，不好意思，你认为美国总统是要“善有善报”？你认为他们在任命官员时，是基于他们的良好品德，而不是他们在政治上的关系？难道政治上的自利就比在经济上的自利崇高？我认为你很多事情都在想当然，你告诉我，你从哪儿可以找来天使为我们的社会做安排呢？我甚至认为，你根本做不到？