动物生理学实验视频:老外抓狂：为中国“种族主义”的辩护

一个台湾人为中国种族主义的辩护
　　正文翻译：因为第一次听西方人提到中国人是种族主义者，所以搜索了下，结果还不少，这篇08年的没什么时效性
　　作者应该是台湾人，具体是哪个国家的论坛不怎么清楚
　　正文：
　　t’s common knowledge that when it comesto racial remarks， Chinese people (and perhaps Asians in general) are not themost politically correct people in the world。 We’ve had extendeddiscussions about “racism” in China (see， e。g。， ChocolateCity post by Buxi)。 Recently， I came across aninteresting article in Times Magazine (in relation to theU。S。 Presidential politics) regarding racism in Asia。 Unfortunately， Ibelieve the author falls into many pitfalls that many Westerners make when itcomes to Asian racism。
　　有这样一个常识，当我们谈到种族主义评论的时候，中国人（亚洲人）实际上并不是政治正确的一竿子人。[政治正确指对其他民族态度的合时宜与否] 我们已经深入讨论过种族主义在中国的现状（比如Chocolate city这篇由buxi发布的文章）。最近我在时代周刊（主要是有关美国政治的）上看到篇有意思的文章，是关于亚洲的种族主义倾向的。不幸的是，显然作者讨论到亚洲种族主义的时候，掉入了西方人常见的意识形态。
　　The article started out fair enough：
　　Early this year my wife and I watchedVenus Williams， one of the world’s finest tennis players， compete in Hong Kong。During the match several young men sitting near us kept referring in Cantoneseto Williams as “black demon，” as well as another unprintableepithet。 They shut up when my wife， an American citizen who is ethnicChinese， berated them for their racist language。 (Williams， by the way， won thetournament。) What， I wonder today， would those men say about Barack Obama， whosoon could be the U。S。’s first African-American President？
　　文章的开头还是蛮就事论事的：
　　“早年我和我的妻子在香港看大威廉姆斯比赛的时候（全球最好的网球选手之一）。比赛中，有几个坐在旁边的年轻人不停用广东话称呼她为黑鬼还有其他另外一些猥琐的诨号。我的美籍华人妻子起身谴责了他们的种族主义言论后，他们才住嘴。（另外，大威赢了比赛）所以，我蛮好奇，这些人会怎么看待奥巴马，我们都知道他将会在最近成为美国的第一个美国非洲裔的总统。”
　　In this case， I wouldn’t be surprised ifracial slurs were indeed exchanged by Chinese in the stands。 However， itis also entirely possible that the author had misunderstood what actuallytranspired (his ethnically-Chinese wife notwithstanding)。
　　即使如此，我也不会对看台上的中国人的种族诋毁感到惊讶。不管怎样，完全有可能是作者误解了实际上发生的事——他的中国太太其实不是在谴责对方。
　　I know if this incident had occurred inTaiwan， depending on the circumstances， the bystanders could have simply beenreferring to the athletic skills of Venus Williams in a jovial manner (buildingupon the ingrained view among Chinese / Asians that black people possesssuperior athletic prowess)。
　　我倒是知道如果这件事发生在台湾，根据当时的情况，观看比赛的人应该仅仅是在讨论大威廉姆斯出彩的技术。（其实中国人/亚洲人对黑人的高超的体能有很根深蒂固的印象）
　　While the term “black demon” (黑鬼)can be used as a derogatory term for black people (equivalent terms for whitepeople include 洋鬼子 (western demons) and 鬼佬(foreign devils))， in the South， especially in the Canton area， the term 黑鬼appears to have been incorporated into daily language and currently carries noderogatory connotation。
　　“黑鬼”也许在以前对于黑人是贬义的（就和用来描述白人的“洋鬼子”或者说“鬼佬”一样）在南方，特别是在广东地区，“黑鬼”这个词已经完全进入日常用语并且现在完全没有带有贬义的成分。
　　To really carry negative connotations inthe Cantonese dialect (one of the most “colorful” of Chinese dialects)， youwould have to add explicit expletives as in 死黑鬼) – i。e。 “damn blackdemon。”
　　真是要说到（对黑人）最贬义的广东俚语（中国最“颜色”的俚语），你应该加一个死字，比如死黑鬼。
　　The article went on：
　　Perhaps it’s the memory of slavery， orthe legacy of the civil rights movement， or the need to be politically correct，or just plain politeness， but most Americans， particularly whites， arerelatively restrained in word and deed about race。 Most Asians are uninhibitedabout it。 Asia’s vast ethnic diversity means we are forced to confront the verymany real differences — cultural， political， economic — that exist among us。Sometimes those differences erupt in violence。 At least half of the world’sarmed conflicts are in Asia， nearly all ethnic-based。 But the bigger reasonAsians do not focus on commonality is because their societies do not encourageit。
　　然后那篇文章继续说：
　　“也许这是出于美国的黑人曾经被奴役的身份，种族权益斗争的记忆，或者是为了合时宜的礼貌。大部分美国人，特别是白人，对于种族这个问题言行都相对比较自律。但是亚洲人对此就无所顾忌。亚洲的种族多样性意味着他们不得不面对很多差异——文化，政治，经济等。有时候这些差异会演变成暴力。至少世界上有一半的武装冲突是在亚洲，基本上每个民族都存在。亚洲人不注意种族平等更大的原因也许是因为他们的社会并不鼓励如此。”
　　This was a very puzzling passage to me。If both America and Asia shared similar histories of ethnic conflicts， and ifAsians further have to confront the “very many real differences — cultural，political， economic — that exist among us” … in some of the most denselypopulated regions of the world， then why is it the Americans not the Asians whohave evolved Political Correctness？ Is there really something intrinsicin Asian cultures that discourage people from finding “commonality” among us，as the author put it？
　　这在我看来就有点莫名其妙了。如果美国和亚洲享有同样种族冲突历史，而且亚洲人还必须在世界上人口最稠密的地区进一步面对“政治，经济，文化上的差异”。那么为什么是美国，而不是亚洲发展出所谓的“政治正确”？实际上真有什么本质上的亚洲文化阻止人们去寻找彼此的“共同点”？或者是作者在这主观臆断？

However， just as the author was gettingme lost， he also made some insightful remarks：
　　In many [Asian] countries， ethnicdivisions are institutionalized， with strict laws governing what one race canand cannot do。 In largely homogenous Japan， it’s extremely difficult for anon-Japanese to become a citizen even if born there。 In Malaysia， anaffirmative-action program gives preference to Malays over the country’ssizable Chinese and Indian populations in everything from university places togovernment contracts。 In Pakistan， Punjabis， the dominant ethnic group， arefavored for key positions in the powerful military and civil service。Government leaders argue that these kinds of measures help maintain harmony。Maybe so， but it is a superficial harmony that reinforces stereotypes andhinders the creation， in the long run， of genuine tolerance and understanding。
　　不管怎样，就如同作者有些观点让我觉得难以理解，他还是有一些富有洞察力的观点：
　　“在很多亚洲国家，种族隔离是体制化的，一个种族的人可以做什么不可以做什么都有严格的法规管理的。在同质化严重的日本，一个非日本人想要加入日本国籍是极端困难的。在马来西亚，一项积极平权措施给予马来人相对大量的中国人口和印度人口在大学入学和政府契约方面优先权。在巴基斯坦，旁遮普人，巴基斯坦的主要民族，在军队和公务员选拔中处于有利位置。政府领导为此争辩说这样的措施是为了保持国家和谐。也许是这样，但是这只是表面上的和谐，长期如此只会加强守旧的作风阻碍打破僵局，无法达到真正的宽容和理解。”
　　I have to agree with most of this。 I don’t think it can be over-emphasized that it is institutionalized racism –or what I have called “political racism” (racism with an intent to oppress) –that is at the root of what makes racism so inflammatory and despicable。
　　I understand I may be misinterpreted，but I believe it is a mistake to conflate racism asan ideology designed to oppress(“political racism”) with racismarising out of ignorance (traditional “social racism”)。
　　Until very recently China is an agrariansociety with relatively little movement of people。 The racism we see today ismore a form of ingrained “localism” that have persisted from historicalisolation rather than vestiges of a political ideology。
　　我不得不认同大部分观点。但是我不认同作者过度强调的所谓“体制化”卑鄙地煽动着种族歧视，或者用我的话说就是政治种族主义（有意识的种族压迫）。
　　我可能曲解了作者的意思，但我确实不认同将意识形态上故意去压迫的政治种族主义和无知导致的社会上的种族主义混为一谈。
　　直到最近中国都还是一个农业社会并且人口迁徙比较少。我们今天看到的种族主义在更大的程度上是历史遗留根深蒂固的“地方主义”，和政治意识形态的影响关系不大。
　　People should note that the basis ofChineseness as a political entity in the modern era (since the beginning of theRepublic (and later the People’s Republic)) has always been based on amulticultural identity。 Throughout most of China’s history， China has neverconfronted the sort of “political racism” seen in Europe and America， manyvestiges of which still exist (see for example， articles on racism in France， Italy，and America)。 It’slittle wonder many Chinese people have not yet developed the type of hypersensitivity to race that has preoccupied the West (at least America) for sometime。
　　As China advances and globalizes， manyChinese will undoubtedly culture a more sensitive attitude toward race in itscolloquial language。
　　Do you agree with my characterization ofracism in China vs。 racism in the West？
　　Am I correct to say that the Chinese arenot “racist，” but simply “politically incorrect”？
　　大家应该意识到所谓的中华民族这个政治概念其实是在近现代才形成的（民国建国之初到后来的人民共和国）是根植于多元文化表述的。在中国历史上，中国几乎从来没有面对过像欧洲美国如今依然存在的这种种族主义（你可以去查关于法国意大利美国种族主义的文章）。这也就难怪我们中国人并没有发展出西方（至少是美国人）那种对种族主义极端敏感的心态。
　　随着中国的飞速发展和全球化，很多中国人毫无疑问会更加注意当谈及其他种族时候的言辞。
　　你们赞成我对中国和西方不同种族主义的描述吗？
　　那么我说中国人不是种族主义者，而仅仅是“政治上不正确”也没问题吧？
　　And finally， since wehave an international audience here， I might as well ask a question associatedwith International Politics。 Why does it seem to me that in the Westerneye， ethno-religious (or socio-economic) tensions in the West are always framedthrough the lens of “civil rights” whereas ethno-religious (or socio-economic) tensionsin China are always framed through the lens of nationalism andself-determination？
　　最后，现在这个论坛里面也有不少各个国家的人，我也想问一个关于国际政治的问题。为什么在我看来西方的观点上，民族认同感在西方往往被划为“公民权利”的框架内，而中国的民族认同感就往往会被归为民族主义和民族自决？
　　
评论翻译：
　　October 14th，2008 at 7：03 pm
　　We’ve had thisdiscussion before， and yes， I do think that referring to Venus Williams as a ‘blackdevil’ is impolite。 Once again the “US vs China” angle， depressing 。 。 。
　　我们已经讨论过这个问题，是的，我认为称呼大威廉姆斯“黑鬼”很不礼貌。又一次“美国VS中国”，这种角度蛮沉闷的。
　　2。 RUMman Says：
　　October 14th，2008 at 7：31 pm
　　Friend of mine was beaten nearly todeath by the Taiwanese who had just called him a ‘black devil’。 I’m sure theymeant it respectfully though。
　　我的一个朋友被一个叫他“黑鬼”的台湾人打得半死。我依然觉得他们用这个词还蛮尊敬的。
　　3。 RUMman Says：
　　October 14th，2008 at 7：35 pm
　　Was Sun Yat-sen anethno-nationalist by the way？
　　顺便问一句，孙中山是民族主义者吗？
　　4。 ecodelta Says：
　　October 14th，2008 at 7：35 pm
　　Unfamiliarity and lack of frequentcontact with foreign people， special other “races” (do not like that term) andcultures by many Chinese can usually lead to remarks that could be understoodas racist， and in other cases to remarks that are really racist or toonationalist/localists
　　中国人因为并不熟悉外国人，并且缺乏交流，特别是对于其他“种族”（我不怎么喜欢这个词）的人，所以经常被认为是种族主义者。在其他情况下，他/她可能是一个真的种族主义者或者是太过民族主义亦或地方主义。
　　5。 DS Says：
　　October 14th，2008 at 7：48 pm
　　It is racism。 There isno need to cover it。 The issue in my view is where the question comes from。Isolated societies are all racist。 No one in those nations sees anything wrong。Japan is a good example。 America is a big melting pot with fractions ofcomparable strength。 The word is “comparable”！ It is certainly not a good ideato fight over some words。 The political correctness has thus evolved — a directproduct of the civil rights movement。 This value is starting to move around theglobe to the benefit of all people。
　　The Chinese aresensitive to different sets of things。 Such as family honor， worshiping Buddhaetc。 They show considerable sensitivity to ethnic minorities， probably becausethey have lived together long enough。 Their disrespect (maybe too strong aword， more like being too casual) towards foreign people is a sign of lack ofeducation and understanding， and should be a thing of the past。 This hasnothing to do with oppression。 It is also not difficult to fix。 I hopeeveryone， including the Chinese in the know， stand up and shout： shut you dirtymouth！
　　这就是种族主义。没必要掩饰。在我的观点看来问题在于是来自于哪。孤立社会里的个体都是种族主义者，而且他们中没人觉得这有什么不对。日本就是个很好的例子。美国是个大熔炉，少数族裔的力量也相对强大。我用了“相对”这个词，咬文嚼字没什么意思。政治正确这种说法才因此得以发展出来-直接是民事权利运动的产物。这种价值观已经开始播撒到全球并造福人们。
　　中国人对于其他事物更敏感些。比如家族荣誉，佛教等。他们对少数民族的尊重，也许是因为他们彼此已经一起生活了很久。他们对外国人的无礼（像用词不当，或者太过随便）是缺乏教育和理解的标志，而且应该是旧时代的遗物。这和压迫又是另外一回事。而且修正起来也不难。我希望所有人，包括中国人，在再发生这种情况的时候站起来说：“闭上你的臭嘴！”
　　6。-2 bt Says：
　　October 14th，2008 at 7：53 pm
　　Hi Allen，
　　Anyway， mockery toward any kind of people on the simple basis of his ‘race’，look or province origin is just plainly impolite， wherever it happens。
　　你好艾伦，
　　无论如何，根植于别人种族的外貌特征、地区等根植于“种族”的嘲弄都是单纯不礼貌的，无论这发生在哪。
　　7。 -2 Nimrod Says：
　　October 14th，2008 at 8：03 pm
　　I think it’s all aproduct of education。 You get taught a lot of racial and gender sensitive inpolitically correct societies， whereras in China you get taught the 56ethnicities live in a happy big family。 In Singapore， as I undertand， you gettaught the three races of Chinese， Indian， Malay live happily。 A little bit ofpsychological hinting goes a long ways to make most people behave well， but inthe end that isn’t really an enlightenment。 That takes individuals interactingand learning from each other。
　　我觉得这是教育的体现。你在一个“政治正确”的社会学到关于种族和性别敏感的必要。但是在中国，他们教你的是56个民族兄弟姐妹是一家。在新加坡，如同我知道的，他们教你中国人，印度人，马来人互相相处得很好。这种心理暗示还是让大部分人的行为不失当，但是最后，这确实不是让人们私下交流并互相学习真正的教化【启蒙】。
　　8。 -4 RUMman Says：
　　October 14th，2008 at 8：09 pm
　　I should also note that black Englishteachers getting discriminated when looking for jobs is not racism。 It’s just alittle bit politically incorrect。
　　那我也可以说黑人教师在找工作的时候遭到歧视不是种族主义，只是有点政治不正确。
　　9。 RUMman Says：
　　October 14th，2008 at 8：15 pm
　　Mind you， when Chineseappear in kung-fu flicks it’s evidence of systemic US racism， the demonizationof the Asian male， and so on。 。 。
　　注意，当中国人出现在功夫电影里面的时候，这是有组织的美国种族主义，你看他们如何妖魔化亚洲男性的，还有很多例子。
　　10。 Allen Says：
　　October 14th，2008 at 8：19 pm
　　@RUMman #several posts，
　　Yes yes… I understand where you are comingfrom。 I am trying to say that political motivated racism and ignorancemotivated racism are two very different things and ought to be treateddifferently。
　　Of course in an ideal world， I’d like toget rid of both (as well as end world hunger， etc。)。 But the two are not equal。To conflate the two is to under-appreciate the systematic destruction inlivelihoods and long-term political fallout that can result from politicalracism… That’s my underlying point。

【这条是楼主的回复】
　　是的，我知道你是哪的人。我试图表达的是有由政治产生的种族主义和无知产生的种族主义是完全不同的东西，而且应该被区别对待。
　　当然，在理想的情况下，我也很乐意看见二者都不存在（就如同我对饥荒等问题的态度一样）。但是二者并不等同。将二者混为一谈并没有正确评价对于人的生计体制化的破坏和长期政治辐射。这是我潜在的观点。
　　11。 RUMman Says：
　　October 14th，2008 at 8：40 pm
　　OK Allen， I do seethere is a distinction。
　　I’m not sure it’sreally a case of ‘the west’ having both types of racism while China only hasignorance motivated racism though。
　　好的，艾伦【楼主的id】，我看出点门道。
　　不过我不认同西方同时有着两种种族主义，而中国只有无知导致的一种这种说法。
　　12 Xenu Says：
　　October 14th，2008 at 8：40 pm
　　There are no doubt plenty of racistattitudes prevalent throughout Chinese society， however， I believe a lot ofpeople whom exhibit attitudes we might perceive as racist are really justxenophobic。 Racism usually has a component of hate but from what I’ve observed，the attitudes (if I may be so bold to generalize) of people seem more akin tofear and dislike of “foreigners” which even includes Chinese not native totheir area。
　　毫无疑问，种族主义态度在中国社会中大行其道，然而，我相信大部分被挂上种族主义标签的人实际上只是对外国人感到恐惧。种族主义往往由仇恨所构建，但是就我观察看来，他们的态度（如果我大胆的推测）往往是因为恐惧和厌恶并非中国本地的“外国人”。
　　13 +1 S。K。 Cheung Says：
　　October 14th，2008 at 9：09 pm
　　Like FOARP says， moreof the us versus them business again。 As I’ve said before， prejudging anindividual based on that individual’s race is racism。 Saying that it’s due to alack of refinement， education， multicultural exposure， whatever， may explainit， but shouldn’t excuse it。
　　So Williams is black。Undeniable fact。 And nothing wrong with referring to her as a “black person”(ren， I believe， in Mandarin)。 But once you throw in the “demon”， that’sprejudicial。 And if you say that’s merely a colloquialism， then I’d suggestthat Chinese racism is more deep-seated， prevalent， and enduring than you wouldacknowledge， in order for it to have become “colloquial” in the first place。
　　就像FOARP说的那样，又是我们【美国人】VS中国人的话题。我以前就说过，先于个体表现而直接通过种族去判断对方就是种族主义。是缺乏教育和教养及多文化接触的体现，可以这么解释，但是无法因此就去原谅。
　　大威是毫无疑问的黑人。在普通话中叫她“黑人”无可厚非。但是当你用“鬼”这个词的时候，这就是错误的。如果是在口语中广泛使用，那么中国人的种族主义无疑是根深蒂固而且普遍的，并且比我们想的更加持久，不然也不会完全口语化。
　　THe issue of Chinesebeing relatively less mobile in the past has oft been raised。 I don’t thinkeither Chinese or westerners are inherently more or less susceptible to racism。But essentially， China seems to be a “multicultural” society by geography only，with， till now， relatively little inter-cultural interaction。 And whileincreased interaction may result in less of your “political” racism， I see itjust as likely that it would breed more。 After all， familiarity breedscontempt， and I would think， given the chance， Chinese are capable of all thatAmericans are， good and bad。
　　中国人历史上相对迁徙较少这个问题被凸显了出来。我不认为中国人或者西方人一生下来就更会容易成为种族主义者。但是本质上，中国只是在地理上是多文化的族群，直到现在也是，而文化内的碰撞相对较少。而内部文化的碰撞会减少“政治”上的种族主义，这理应更广泛才是。最后，还是少见多怪，同样情况下，中国和美国人没什么两样，有好也有坏的。
　　So if you want to put alabel on it， and you’re unhappy with those currently on offer， may I suggest“Chinese racism”。 It’s unique， it’s easily distinguishable…。and it’s just asreprehensible as any other country’s version thereof。
　　As for the solution tosuch racism (or whatever you want to call it)， I’d suggest that the solutiondepends on the context in which you find the problem。 So if you have racism，but everyone involved is content with the nation construct in which the problemresides， then advocating civil rights seems reasonable。 But if you have racism，and perhaps not everyone wants to play within the confines of the nation inwhich they currently find themselves， then perhaps such tension may furtherfuel some form of nationalism。 It’s not a question of the west versus China，but a question of the realities therein。
　　所以如果想要对中国人贴标签，现在的说法其实不怎么贴切，我建议使用“中国种族主义”。它是独有的，并且易于辨别的。当然，就如同其他国家的种族歧视一样，这是应该受到谴责的。
　　作为种族主义问题的解决方法，我建议还是根据情况来找问题。如果你本人是种族主义者，而问题其实属于国家结构，每个国民都被卷进来了，那么倡导民权就很有必要了。但是如果不是所有人都想要为了自我认同而生活在自我封闭的国家，这种倾向也许会发展出某种爱国主义。这不是一个西方vs中国的问题，而是彼此生活的现实不同的问题。
　　14 +1 Raj Says：
　　October 14th，2008 at 9：27 pm
　　Xenu， I really hope your view is notreflective of anything because xenophobia is not “better” than racism。 They’reequally bad。
　　Racism is everywhere and people need torealise that。 Sometimes it’s easier to try to cover it up or say “it’s not thatbad”， but people have to stand up against it。
　　For China specifically， I don’t knowthat it’s that bad。 I think maybe it’s as racist as other Asian countries likeTaiwan and Japan。 Probably not as bad as Korea， the north for obvious reasonsand the south…。 well just talk to US servicemen who have been stationed there。At least in China， Taiwan， Japan women don’t get spat at on the street forbeing with a Caucasian guy。
　　Xenu，我希望你的观点不是深思熟虑的结果，因为对外恐惧并不比种族主义“好一点”，都是很坏的事。
　　种族主义到处都是，而人们需要认识到这点。有时候很容易掩饰它并且说“这没有那么坏”，但是人们应该站起来反对它。
　　就拿中国来说，我不清楚到底有没有那么严重。我想也许他们的种族主义者就如同其他亚洲国家一样，像日本，台湾。也许没有韩国那么严重，朝鲜的原因我们都知道，而南韩……好吧，我们就说是因为美国在那里驻军的原因。至少中国，台湾，日本女人不会因为和一个高加索人交往而被吐口水。
　　15 +1 Netizen K Says：
　　October 14th，2008 at 9：36 pm
　　Are ALL Chinese racist？No。 One person that is not will disprove that statement。
　　Are SOME Chineseracist？ Yes。 One person that is will prove it。 But it is a noninformativestatement because it seems all societies have some racists。
　　Are Chinese MORE racistthan such xyz group of people？ First you have to define this xyz group。 Thenyou have to collect data。 Opinions and anecdotes won’t be able to prove ordisaprove this statement。
　　This post is really notrigerous。
　　是否所有中国人种族主义？不，就一个人来看，会反证这个说法。
　　是否有些中国人是种族主义者？是的，就一个人来看，会证实这个说法。但是这个说法却没什么意义，因为每个社会中总有些种族主义者。
　　中国人是否比那些xyz族群【查了一下，xyz是指美国政府退休人员】还种族主义？首先我们需要定义xyz族群。然后搜集资料，舆论和轶闻无法成为论据。
　　这篇文章的讨论不怎么严格。
　　16 Xenu Says：
　　October 14th，2008 at 10：06 pm
　　@Raj
　　As I’ve mentioned， there are plenty ofracist attitudes in China。 I never said xenophobia was “better” than racism，you’re projecting unless you feel I implied it then that would be my fault fornot being clear enough。 There are distinct differences between xenophobia andracism and classifying the problem correctly is one step in solving it。
　　Raj，就如我提到的，在中国有相当多的种族主义行为。我从没说过对外国人恐惧比种族主义“好”，你提出这一点就像我在暗示如此一样，也许是因为我没有把话说清楚。对外恐惧和种族主义有本质的区别，将问题正确的分类才是解决问题的正确方式。